Clean! Clean! Clean!
Come write on me!
Trav
Okay, I'll muddy the slate up a bit...
There is something I'm eternally curious about. Are there any drudes here that are also fegs? Translation: Are there any Cope fans here that are also Robyn Hitchcock fans? Almost every online music store site I visit connects them in the "if you like this, try this" category...but I've rarely met someone that is fanatical about both. I'm on the Robyn list (as I've said ad nauseum) and there's only 1 out of 300 there. Any here?
That's enough for now
Mike
I'm looking for a copy of the original cd release of Skellington, can anyone help me? Skellington was originally released on vinyl and cd and was available in limited supply at most record stores in the UK. I bought the vinyl, but never found a cd copy.
I have The Skellington Chronicles and would love to find a copy of Skellington on cd. Any help would be great.
Andrew
Mike - I used to be into Hitchcock big time. Especially the Soft Boys. In fact, you just inspired me to go put a Soft Boys CD on right now!
(brb)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....
All the Soft Boys albums are great. Tons of energy, tons of hooks. But Hitchcock I have to be in the mood for. I guess the difference is that Soft Boys are invigorating (getting ready to go out) while Hitchcock is more introspective.
As for albums, I have everything except Gravy Deco and the post-Respect stuff. What has he done since then?
Andrew, I have no idea where to find the original Skellington! The guy that dubbed it for me (before Chronicles came out) was Jim Davies, from the UK. I'm pretty sure he had it on CD. He is also into the Jazz Butcher (another if-you-like-this band). I haven't corresponded with him for about 4 years now!
Otherwise, if I had a copy of Skellington I'd gladly give it to you, since I can always get Chronicles. I am curious - are you trying to be a completist (what, Andrew a completist?!?) or is there something Skellington has that Chronicles doesn't?
Trav
Trav,
My desire to get the original Skellington cd is purely a completist one. As far as I know there is nothing different about the songs. I have the vinyl release and that Skellington is exactly the same as the Skellington Chronicles version.
Skellington is the only Cope cd that I do not have and I am just wanting to round off the collection. I saw a copy of it in a used record store in New York when I was there a few years ago, I think it was about $20. For some stupid reason I didn't buy it! I have never seen it since, so I thought I'd put it out there that I am looking it.
I had never heard anything of Robyn Hitchcock until recently when Mike dubbed me a couple of versions of him singing Charlotte Anne, one version being him jamming along with Peter buck of REM on live radio and the other in concert in Santa Monica. Both are wonderful and has certainly sparked an interest in him, its also great to hear someone doing Cope covers! So if I were to go out and buy a Robyn Hitchcock cd what would be the "ultimate/must have" cd by him? Which should I buy first? Let me know!
Andrew
Hey all,
Trav - Hitchcock post-Respect is somewhat limited, but extremely worthwhile (IMHO). Robyn put out a 3-track single on K Records around 1994, then released the stupendous Moss Elixir CD in 1996, his first for the Warner Bros. label. The Egyptians are no more, and this is a solo album of sorts, with superb backing by Deni Bonet on violin. This is a more acoustic-type album, though a few rungs up from Eye or I Often Dream Of Trains. A month or so before its release, Robyn put out the companion vinyl-only Mossy Liquor with half new tracks/half reworked and stripped-down tracks from the CD proper. Many consider it superior to ME. In more RH news, Jonathan Demme (the Silence Of The Lambs, Philadelphia, and Stop Making Sense director) filmed a complete movie to be released in March '98, entitled Storefront Hitchcock, which was shot at a series of gigs in NYC last December. The double-live album should be out around the same time. Also, A&M and Rhino has each released Greatest Hits type albums in the last few months. So...
Andrew - Fate has brought us together. I indeed have Skellington on CD...COPECO 1 I believe. I found it used in Orlando about three years ago. Not sure if I could part with it though...email me off list and we can always discuss the possibilities... And thanks again for the tape trade! As far as what Hitchcock to buy, I'll email you offlist to save space...I've babbled enough already.
Any idea anyone when The Modern Antiquarian should be out? JoAnne at HeadHeritage mentioned they might try and do a limited signed edition version for mailing list members.
See ya,
Mike
According to the Head Heritage site Julian's epic book, The Modern Antiquarian, which was begun in 1991 and the deadline for completion passed on September 15th 1997. After this deadline it will enter a year of production and design with the publishers Thorsons (a division of Harper Collins) to get it ready for its scheduled publication in October of 1988. Unfortunately this means that Julian won't be very active musically for the next year (but knowing Julian he'll probably squeeze out half a dozen albums and a few 7"s anyway).
I worked for a book publisher for a year and more than likely the book will be printed and ready to go by the end of next summer so there may be some advance copies available for a limited signed edition, let's hope so!
Andrew
just thought i'd pass along this plea for help ... (don't consider this an endorsement -- i don't know the fellow, but if he likes julain, he can' be all that bad :)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:04:11 -0700
From: Jeff Penczak <leapday@goes.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U)
To: Droneon <Droneon@ucsd.edu>
Subject: ATTENTION: Fellow Druids
Hope someone can help. Me and my two co-hosts of a college radio show in New
Jersey will be spending our entire three hour show on Monday, October 20 in a
tribute to Julian Cope's 40th birthday (on the 21st). Between us, we have just
about everything he's released commercially and hope to get to as much as
possible during the 3 hours. However (and here's where you come in), we don't
really have any (how shall I say, "uncommercially" released stuff, especially
live tapes). Now I know over the years there have been radio braodcasts of
Teardrops' shows and perhaps, some of Julian's solo shows, but we've been
unable to locate any. WOuld some kind soul(s) be willing to dub any concerts
they have recorded, traded or bought over the years and send me a copy(ies)?
I wrote to Julian's people at Head Heritage about the possibility of playing
some unreleased stuff and they said (and I quote): "We have no need for
legalitites around here, so by all means go right ahead. And please send us a
tape of the show. We're honored that you're taking the time to devote a show
to Julian."
If anyone can help me out, please e-mail me privately so as not to weigh down
the droneon list. We'll be glad to also make you a copy of our show and will
also dub any official stuff missing from your collection that we may have. If
you are up to it, we'll even mention your name on the show so Julian'll know
who to contact if he wants to get more of your goodies for himself!
Thanks again for the help!,
Jeff
there you go~
jason.
Hey, by all means feel free to babble on here, guys! I love off-topic chatter - it adds flavor! As an example, Mike, I am very curious what Hitchcock you recommended to Andrew! (and I'm sure others are as well)
Right now, inspired by our talk, I am listening to Skellington for the first time in ages. It's great!!! It has definitely aged well.
As for unreleased stuff, Jason, I have some Cope boots your friend might like. What kind of sound quality does he want?
Also, I am eternally curious: has anyone checked out the Astoria gig I put online?
Trav
p.s. There was a power outage on Monday - sorry if your posts didn't get through!
trav (et al.)
that guy, jeff from wnti in new jersey, is looking for interesting stuff to use during his three hour broadcast.
he said anything playable, that julian wouldn't mind hearing :)
e-mail him and set something up, perhaps as it gets closer to the broadcast date (and julian's birthday) jeff may appreciate funny stories of things that have happened during shows, interviews, etc.
myself, i'm rather fond of the 'i discovered that you can be right-on, without being Sting' discussion julian had with mark thomas (?) on 04-mar-91 radio 5, the mix session. and the discussion they had about how julian had being plugging himself as being an 'art-hole.' :)
jason.
Hi All,
Just a quick note to say that I have posted the list of Cope records that Big Al of Ottawa is selling, on the Trampolene site. I had sent the list on to Head Heritage because I thought they might know of Cope fans out there looking for obscure items etc, it really is an amazing list! JoAnne suggested that they would put a link to it from Head Heritage if I posted the list, so I have! The address is:
http://www.trampolene.ca/BigAl.html
If anyone else out there wants to sell off any Cope related items then drop me an email and we can extend this page to be a kind of resource centre for Cope stuff, maybe call it Cope's Flea Market or Julian's Yard Sale, whatever...
Andrew
Okay Trav, you asked for it. This is an excerpt of the Robyn Hitchcock diatribe I sent off to Andrew...
Greatest Hits packages are always nice when you don't know much about the artist. I would suggest firstly the most recently released one...Uncorrected Personality Traits, on Rhino Records. This covers an odd mix of quirky and cool from his first 9 or so albums. Another greatest hits package which covers the A&M years ('87-'92) is simply titled Greatest Hits. The A&M stuff is markedly different, in that the Egyptians were really shooting for the big time...more produced-sounding records, videos, lots of promo, that kinda thing. This was also the era where the Soft-Boys-influencing-REM was reversed. Peter Buck and Michael Stipe make various odd appearances through 3 of the 4 A&M albums, to questionable results. I like 'em, but many don't.
Albums proper? I think you can't go wrong with his latest true studio release, Mossy Liquor. I can't say enough about this album. The hard part with picking an album to recommend is that Robyn has gone through several stages (much as has Julian), from true psychedelic quirkiness, to produced jangly Athens-style alternative, to introspective folk.
Here are my other faves...
Albums to stay away from initially...they're good, but secondary:
Mike
Hi Travis,
Just a note to say that yes I have checked out your Astoria gig and it's great!
Actually I was there, and it was a great period as it seemed like Julian was playing London every other week at the time. He did a great gig in what was little more than a pub ballroom in North London a few months before then (The Boston Arms) and that was my first solo Cope gig and it was incredible. Very intimate, very in your face, very memorable.
It's sad really that Julian's live shows are becoming more and more infrequent - or should that be less and less frequent? Whatever!
Hey, Travis, any chance of any more live stuff we can download?
Speak to you soon
Pat
after reading through all the teardrop and cope stuff, I'll share my own memory of the band and seeing them in 1981 at the palladium with the a's (a forgotten band from philadelphia) and U2, who were the support band. it was a nondescript show, unfortunately, but I was such a fan, having been obsessed with them and the jam and the undertones that I loved them anyway. hearing "when i dream" for the first time on the local college station, just after the station began, sandwiched in between "wait for the blackout" by the damned and "one in 10" by UB40 and I was hooked. ah yes, the joy of my youth.
anyway--is there anyone out there who'd be kind enough to compile any official teardrop videos, film clips and tv appearances and let me know what you've got and how much it would cost?
much obliged--
er, look out!
Rob Ross
Dear Rob,
This is a list of all the Teardrop Explodes and Julian Cope video stuff I have. Unfrotunately it is all on the European PAL vhs system, so I can't watch it here in North America. You can get it converted, but it could be pretty costly. I have never actually priced it out, I guess the Teardrops stuff is about 2 hours in total. If you find anywhere that will do it let me know how much it costs. Thanks.
Andrew
Teardrop Explodes - Videos:
Reward / Ha Ha I'm Drowning - OGWT 80 10m
Reward - Top of the Pops (2 Versions) 80 10m
Reward - Tiswas (Video) 80 5m
When I Dream - Swap Shop (Video Clip) 81 1m
When I Dream / Poppies - Swap Shop 81 8m
Treason - Top of the Pops 81 4m
Nottingham Royal Theatre (Officia/7 Songs) 16/08/81 40m
Whistle Test Special (BBC 2/9 Songs) 04/01/82 50m
Passionate Friend - Top of the Pops 82 5m
Julian Cope - Videos:
Sunshine Playroom - Phonogram Promo Video 84 5m
The Big Club Turin (Bootleg/15 Songs) 28/03/86 60m
World Shut Your Mouth - Top of the Pops 01/11/86 5m
Trampolene / Spacehopper - The Tube 09/01/87 10m
Westminster Central Halls (BBC TV/6 Songs) 23/01/87 30m
Westminster Central Halls (Island/3 Songs) 23/01/87 20m
Westminster Central Halls (Bootleg/16 Songs) 20/01/87 70m
The Last Resort - Interview 23/01/87 10m
Live at the New York Ritz (MTV US/14 Songs) 28/02/87 70m
West German TV MIni Concert (4Songs) 84 15m
Trampolene - The Saturday Show (BBC) 04/87 5m
Eve's Volcano - French TV 04/87 5m
Island 25 Party (Channel 4/2 Songs) 04/07/87 10m
Werchter Festival - Live/Int (RTB Belgium) 04/07/87 10m
Rock in UK - Interview (Central TV) 88 10m
Eve's Volcano - Video + I'view (MTV US) 87 10m
Island Instore Promo for Saint Julian 87 1m
The Last Resort (Channel 4/1 Song) 07/10/88 5m
Charlotte Anne - Wogan (BBC 1) 10/88 5m
Glasgow Pavilion Theatre (Bootleg/17 Songs) 15/10/88 80m
Copeulation (Official Collection/14 Songs) 89 60m
Startest - Interview (Channel 4) 13/06/89 30m
Battle of Trafalgar - Cope Clips (Channel 4) 91 10m
Beautiful Love - T.O.T.P. Vid Clip (BBC1) 91 4m
Beautiful Love - MotorMouth (ITV) 91 5m
Beautiful Love - Going Live Int/Vid (BBC 1) 91 10m
The Late Show - Profile and Interview (BBC 2) 91 15m
East Easy Rider - The Chart Show Video (ITV) 91 5m
Friday Night At The Dome (Channel /2 Songs) 10/05/91 10m
Bristol Bierkeller (Bootleg/18 Songs) 15/05/91 90m
Head - The Chart Show Video (ITV) 27/02/91 5m
Much Music - Canada (Videos/Interviews) 91 15m
Andrew:
Thanks loads...
Actually, since I live in Staten Island, New York, there is a video dubbing place that I can go to but my department at work is right next to the video department, so I could have it done at a really low price since it's just a pal to ntsc transfer. If you need dubs done, please don't hesitate to let me know!
Monday--all drudes and Cope-heads--is Julian's 40th Birthday. The New York contingent of the anti-Balfe league will be celebrating, so don't forget!
Many thanks--
Rob
Hey guys!
Pat, glad you liked the Astoria gig! AS far as I know, you are the first person to listen to it besides me! :) I will definitely try to put some more gigs up soon.
Mike, nice Hitchcock list. I'll have to check out Mossy Liquor. Do you know if there are any samples of it online?
Does everyone have Interpreter now? I am curious what the consensus is... Does Julian seem to be on the creative upswing? Or does he seem to be rushing things? I personally can't wait until he finished The Modern Antiquarian... Then we'll both have another excellent book to read and Julian will be able to get back to making music!
Trav
Thanks to Jason for posting my request for some boots to play on my JC birthday tribute show on Monday. I'm hoping to have Jason's stuff in time, but to anyone else who has anything intertesting, I'd be glad to work out something for future shows. Since this is going out over the radio, I probably need A/EX quality for the audience to be able to hear it clearly. I've safe surfed around to a couple of URLs and have several folks lists of many shows. I was just wondering if someone gives a show an A and someone else gives it a B or C does this mean they have different source tapes or different opinions as to the quality of the recording?
Just a question I want to consider when contacting folks for live tapes. Thanks.
Jeff
P.S. This is my first post to Rail On so I hope it goes through. I've been looking for something like this for quite a while and the archives lead me to believe this is the place to be. I'll let you all know how the show went next week. Thanks again to Jason, Andrew and others who contacted me.
On the Island release 'Followers of St. Julian' in the interview section he states his birthday as October 21st(he didn't know his blood type however), which I believe is tomorrow(Tuesday), although it already is Tuesday in the UK.
I did send a short message via his 'current site'(no update in 2 months and counting). Still very much enjoying Interpreter, albeit loaned out currently. Listened to 20 Mothers last week for the first time in a couple of months and found I enjoy it even more now.
Still looking forward to a US date or two, I mean hell, if Mick and the boys (yes even Keef) can do it, surely the Arch Drude can skip across the pond for a week or two. How bout a Las Vegas basement tour?
peace...
Here's some birthday wishes for Julian:
Happy Birthday.
Julian even merits a mention in Addicted to Noise, link on over to:
Addicted to Noise article [broken link]
Happy birthday Julian. Now that you're 40 does this mean its time for the AOR album? And while I'm here, happy birthday to me, for tomorrow the 22nd, and I'll only be 30 (ha, ha!).
Jeff says he's been having problems posting on here. Anyone else have problems?
Trav
Jeff with the problem here. This is just a quick test post to see if I can get through. Las time I hung for about 3 minutes, then got a Netscape error saying something about network problems and Network reset by peer. If this posts, I apologoize for the lack of JC content. More will follow.
Thanks,
Jeff
That last one seemed to go through, so here's the real one.
I just wanted to drop a line about the JC birthday tribute show I did on WNTI-FM in Hackettstown, NJ last night. First off, it got a little hectic because my partner called about 10 minutes to air time to inform me had broken down on the way up so I would have to go it alone. Bad news part: Normally we split the show, so I had only preplanned 90 minutes, planning to go with some of my favorite stuff that he didn't get to in the first 90. Therefore, it was a bit of a panic trying to fill in the other 90 in some semblance of order. Good news part: since I didn't know what he was going to play, I emptied out my JC/TE shelf and came armed with pretty much the whole catalog. Luckily, Jason's tapes also arrived yesterday, so I had a few frantic hours to go through and pick out some things to play that the audience certainly hadn't heard before. (Thanks, Jason.)
So, to the show. I pretty much got to sample all the LPs and was able to plop in a few rarities. I'm sure you folks have all the stuff, but I know my audience is probably casual JC buyers, so they got a few treats like the TEs original Zoo 45, Sleeping Gas, the (as far as I know) Kilimanjaro US LP only version of Suffocate, the Propheteering 45 (both sides) and selections from Jason's tapes: the 29/10/92 Manchester Academy and 23/8/93 Edinburgh Fringe shows as well as an interview (4/3/91) off Radio 5, the Mix.
Due to the mix-up with my partner, I actually only got to do 2.5 hours, so there were a few of my rarities (i.e., out-of-print, I think) that I didn't actually get to like the b-sides from the China Girl and WSYM EPs. I also tried to fit in as much as possible, so I avoided QE and the Rite disks. A few callers wanted the hits, so I did put on WSYM, Planetary Sit-In (not the 20:00 minute Radio Sit In due to time constraints), Try, Try, Try and Julian's first 45, Sunshine Playroom (since somebody tried to trick me with a trivia question asking what his first 45 was, HA!)
I also played the Roky tribute cut and a couple non-JC tunes where he is namechecked, The Fall's Two Steps Back (check Head On for details) and Bevis Frond's It Won't Come Again. If you unfamiliar with that latter piece, it's on New River Head (my fave Frond disk) and contains the line, "You rival me with your Teardrop acts."
Finally, I did mention some URLs for the "safesurfers" of the NET out there: Julian's Head Heritage site as well as Andrew's Trampoline site for the great links. I also gave folks this URL so perhaps we'll get more "members."
Thanks to everyone who responded to my post that Jason put up (Thank YOU, Jason for the tapes). I hope to get to more selections on future shows and may be contacting some of you to work out trades or whatever for additional material).
Happy Birthday, Julian and, as always,
Luv on ya!
Jeff
Hi
I see head heritage has fallen back alittle and still no news of QE2 so it's all quiet on the JC front at the moment.
All too quiet...it's almost eerie. Must be the autumnal doldrums.
Boo!
Howdy! Happy Halloween and welcome November!
1. I was watching a Church video compilation the other day, and I was struck by how similar one of their songs ("Tantalized," I think) sounded to the Teardrop Explodes/Echo and the Bunnymen! Lots of horns, same type of chord changes... Pretty cool sound! Anyone else notice that similarity?
2. I have been looking into installing a RealAudio server, so that I can stream the RealAudio files rather than make you guys download them. However, I find that if I run across a neat set of RealAudio files, I like to download them anyway, so that I can play them smoothly and whenever I like. So what I'd like to know is whether you guys want me to install a RA server, or if I should just focus on getting more RA files online! (Like another concert)
3. I've gotten a bit of mail recently regarding the Cope Tribute Tape! I'm thinking about setting up a web page for it, explaining what it is, where to send songs, and what songs have been done so far. Is anyone interested in me setting up such a page?
Take care!
Trav
Hi, everyone. A question that I haven't found mentioned in any of the net sites you guys maintain. While watching a rerun of "Pretty in Pink" last week, I noticed JC and TE performing in the background of a scene at a club where Molly Ringwald and her friends hung out. I thought I recognized the song, but couldn't quite come up with it. I don't have the video, so I couldn't replay the scene and the credits were so small I couldn't make out the song. Does anyone know what this is? Also, since it's not on the soundtrack, does anyone have the full version of this "live" rarity?
Thanks,
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
The backup band you saw in "Pretty In Pink" was actually the Rave-Ups I think, not JC and TE. I used to be into the Rave-Ups (an American band) quite a bit, and the lead singer could pass for Julian at a distance...same hair styles and such at the time. Also, the movie came out in 1986, long after the Teardrops had split.
If I remember right, one of the songs they do is from their "Town &Country" album, which came out in '88. Hopelessly out of print now though.
By the way, has anyone else had correspondence lately with Head Heritage? They haven't responded to my emails for several weeks. I must be bugging them to death.
What is a Head, anyway? And what is he calling for us to do, exactly? Is he calling for a true Howl? Cosmic Vibrations? If we only connect to the Land? Will Spirits of the past awaken us? Are we the Living Dead? Is the world we're living in a Metropolis movie made real? What does Cope think of Crowley? What's with all this Magic? Or will Outer Space save us? Before the Word from outer Space destroyed us? He wants to bring us back before Civilization? Cope is calling us to Arms?
Okay everyone, here's a nice bombshell of a question: what does everyone think of Julian Cope's philosophical ideas?
Hi
I've just been working down in Taunton and on the way back i took a trip to Avebury.It ages since i was last there (about 2 years) and i met the same people i saw there then (Hi Jill And Kev!!) spooky or what.Has anyone else had anything like this ever happen to them.
RUSS
I have updated the Cope List section of Trampolene. I know a few of you out there have seen it and found it useful so I have now put in all the track lists for the tapes, as well as identifying the source of each recording and going through and checking all the dates.
There may still be some errors in the track lists. I did want to go through everything and listen to them to get the correct track lists, but the logistics of this would have meant listening to Julian Cope for about a year and half with no break, so I took the track lists from the tape covers and checked any that I thought were suspicious and also thanks to Jason for letting me know screw ups he found!
All the dates are in the order of day/month/year, sorry if I offend our American friends!
Again, if anyone out there has anything they don't see on the list please let me know. I have personally, all of the items in the list so if anyone needs copies of anything drop me a line.
Andrew
P.S. A philosophical discussion on Cope? "Out of My Mind on Dope and Speed" summs it up quite well for me thanks. I know what Head is in my books, but I won't say, there might be children reading.
P.P.S. Despite living in England for 24 years I only visited the Avebury area once and that was on a trip home a couple of years ago. Amazing place, I really could feel an energy change as you come down from the downs into the area, and I hadn't even had any experience enhancements either. Must go back soon. Go and see some of the less popular sites though, like Long Meg and Her Daughters in Cumbria - awesome!
Hmmm, let's see.
With regards to Eskimo's question, (What do I think of JC's philosophical ideas?) I'd have to say...eh...so-so. I think they are thoroughly entertaining (as is the music), but on the whole they're a bit "out there". I wholeheartedly support the activist mentality, but am sometimes at odds with the ideals being sought (I'm not a vegetarian, I eat at McDonalds occasionally when I can't help it, and while I like big old trees as well, I'm not sure that I'd necessarily fight to save each and every one). The pro-paganism thing is also interesting and even healthy, but I'm not sure if christianity is the utter scourge and horror that some make it out to be. But, I entirely admire Julian, Dorian, and everyone else that finds a muse and follows it and expresses their explorations in a fun and artistic manner for others to groove on if they wish. If we all could do the same, we'd all be a lot happier.
Pertaining to Russ' comment, yeah, I had a similar thing happen, though on a much smaller time scale. In 1990 on my first night in Europe, I ran into a gang of backpackers and hung with them for a bit but didn't follow on. Two months later on a overstuffed train to Athens, I was sitting in the aisle with some people just chatting away, when suddenly it was like "hey, wait a minute, don't I know you?" It was cool.
Now, my question. If you could name one other musician/group that really lights your fire (besides Julian) who would that be?
Back again. I have also included Russ Sanders' list of Cope items that are for sale on Trampolene. It can be found with the list that Big Al posted a while ago in the Cornucopia section. The actual URL is:
http://www.trampolene.ca/BigAl.html
If anyone else has anything Cope related that they want to sell or advertise let me know, its free!
Who else turns my crank out there? Sublime, Michelle Shocked, Edwin Collins, Marcy Playground, Ween and Johnny Cash - How's that for a mix?
Andrew
Mike wrote: With regards to Eskimo's question, (What do I think of JC's philosophical ideas?) I'd have to say...eh...so-so. I think they are thoroughly entertaining (as is the music), but on the whole they're a bit "out there". I wholeheartedly support the activist mentality, but am sometimes at odds with the ideals being sought (I'm not a vegetarian, I eat at McDonalds occasionally when I can't help it, and while I like big old trees as well, I'm not sure that I'd necessarily fight to save each and every one). The pro-paganism thing is also interesting and even healthy, but I'm not sure if christianity is the utter scourge and horror that some make it out to be. But, I entirely admire Julian, Dorian, and everyone else that finds a muse and follows it and expresses their explorations in a fun and artistic manner for others to groove on if they wish. If we all could do the same, we'd all be a lot happier.
Mike - perfectly said!!! It's scary how dead-on that was with what I was thinking. You sure you're not adopted??? :)
I think Julian is the only musician that "lights my fire." There's something about his voice or attitude or whatever that makes me proud to like him, even though few people over here hold him in any reverence. Maybe that's it - I think I don't really *revere* him at all. I'm so used to him that he seems to be "on the same level" as me, like he's a peer instead of a teacher. No other musicians make me feel like I am smarter or better than I really am. Only Cope.
Trav
I think there are certain things so intricate to our thought that we can't possibly think of there being a time when they didn't exist, and I think Cope is saying, yes, there was a time! Same thing with Burroughs, he points out that man was walking the Earth fifty thousand years ago, yet the Word has only been around seven thousand (if I remember my Burroughs correctly). So that leaves fourty-three years unaccounted for. Where Burroughs points back before the Word, before language, Cope points back to before Christianity. But the idea is similar. Both language and Christianity are so intricate to our thought (Christians only, evidently) that we couldn't think of there being a world without them.
As a firm believer in the Wiccan beliefs i think one of the most interesting facts that was ever pointed out to me was that long ago the whole world was pagan and from paganism in all its glorious forms came the onset of modern religions; Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc (in fact all of those religions stem from the same root too, the bible is the same as the Koran in many repects). Anyway, what I am trying to say is that there was a time when the world was united in a reverence for the earth and the universe, and that reverence created a greater repect and awareness in my mind for what is around us. The onset of modern religions and worshiping things "unseen" and the onset of the industrial revolution alienated (wo)mankind. I hope the time will come again when we learn to live small and become part of our environment and not try to fuck it over for all we can get.
On another note: Head Heritage has done an update of their site and has kindly included a link to my Trampolene site and mentioned about Big Als list of Cope stuff for sale. Unfortunately, they have put the address in wrong so no one at present can link to the site from there, which is a pisser, but will hopefully be corrected soon.
Rail on and on... Andrew
P.S. Trav, Have you contacted Head Heritage and "demanded" a link to here? I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who would love to join the discussion and that would be a great place to bounce in from.
So, are these Pegan megaliths? Anyone mind commenting upon the megaliths and their significance? Thanks.
The megaliths are the structures left behind by these ancient cultures, usually in the form of one or several standing stones. Avebury, Stonehenge, The Rollright Stones, Long Meg &Her Daughters are all examples. No one really knows what they were for, specualtions about rituals and magic and all that are abound, some though were probably meeting places and market areas. Nontheless they probably did have a spiritual significance and we will never really know. Anyone interested in finding out a bit more about them should check out the following URL, The Stone Pages, I found it pretty informative!
http://joshua.micronet.it/utenti/dmeozzi/HomEng.html
Andrew
Wow, a full-scale discussion!
Here's my six cents. I think religious experience is religious experience, regardless of the focus, be it a cross, a stone monolith, or a sunset. I think it is too easy to rail on against modern "codified" religions simply because we are so surrounded and submerged by them. It is equally as easy to ponder warmly on ancient "pagan" religions simply because we know so little about them. Granted, our modern religious institutions have been either the cause or focus of substantial evil and destruction over recorded history, but this perhaps is not an isolated phenomenon with regards to religious experience, surely just a grander scale. We simply have very little way of knowing.
I'd also argue that the movement from seen to unseen objects of worship is perhaps not as revelatory as it may seem. I tend to think all religion revolves around the worship of the "unknown". Where in ancient times even the changing of day into night was an unknown force (hence sun worship), as human knowledge progressed, the horizon of what is unknown moved steadily outward and we had to devise new and more mystical images to satisfy our built-in yearnings, hence nebulous omniscience, trinities, modern cosmology and science in general, and that sort of thing. It's equally puzzling to me how christianity in effect turned back the clock and pulled the focus back to a physical, very known object...a Palestinian Hebrew, bread, blood, etc. God in human form. The human as god. The closed loop. Eh, just some ideas from one forced to grow up Roman Catholic.
If I sound at all negative towards pagan earth-mother worship, I'm not. I think it is profoundly beautiful and insightful into what makes us and all life tick. I also think a cold lonely astronomer pondering the meaning of a black hole singularity is as awe-inspiring as the image of a fur-clad homo-sapien lost in the sheer wonder of a star rising above a slab of granite on some misty British moor.
What we have to remember is that we are all made of the same material that makes up the whole universe. The elements that were first used by whoever and however to create the universe are in us all, therefore I believe rather than focussing the energy of worship outside of ourselves we have to include ourselves in that worship. The act of worship of things unseen is just a belief in something better, a hope stemming from a dissatisfaction and unacceptance of ourselves right now. In simple we do not love ourselves and so put the power of happiness outside of ourselves.
If we believe that we have all that we need right here and right now it opens up an amazing array of possibilities. We have to accept what we have right now and truly love it in order for change to happen. This is the base principal of manifestation. I have practiced this with the most amazing effects.
I believe the early religions knew where they were in the scheme of things a little better than we do because of their reverence of natural occurances. Of course it is very romantic to look at those times and think they were better than now because of the lack of technology and the "hands on" experience they had with survival and so we should be careful. We always look at things in the past as having greater value because they were made by hand etc, but surely this is only because of a lack of technology. Ok so I am digressing a bit, but ask yourself this question:
Did the average carpenter 500 years ago really care more than cabinet makers today? Would he really have turned away from using plywood and plastics in favour of hand carving solid wood if he'd had access to those things?
The beat goes on... Too bad I'm off to the Rockies for 4 days, still, I look forward to coming back on Wednesday. Keep up the heat. Until then... Love on ya all!
Oh yes, they fixed the link to Trampolene from Head Heritage. Yipee!
Wow, Andrew is a star, and very heavy discussion... Rail On.... Glad to see that Julian is going to tour. Coincedently, I'll be in Vegas in March, so that basement tour maybe shaping up. Can you imagine Julian, Donn-eye, Rooster and the rest playing at the new Hard Rock Hotel in Vegas? Na, never happen. But, it is fun to wonder what if, rather than sucking the bucks off the big names, they actually had a moment of clarity/understanding, and booked the living legacy, Julian Cope. It could happen, I was 'turned on' to Julian by noless than that bastillion of main stream, 'Rolling Stone' magazine. It was a vey flattering review of 'peggy suicide', gave it 4 stars, and I went out and bought it. It is still my personal 'white album'. Well, I'll save my personal religous views for another time, or, review some of the older Rail On posts...some of us have been here a while. Thanks for your dedication Trav! How quickly we forget the months and months where you were all we had. Jeez, remember the excitement over the American Recordings site? I bet it hasn't changed yet.
peace and glory to the mother
There is an element in Mike Runion's latest post that I'd like to talk about.
'I tend to think all religion revolves around the worship of the "unknown". Where in ancient times even the changing of day into night was an unknown force (hence sun worship), as human knowledge progressed, the horizon of what is unknown moved steadily outward and we had to devise new and more mystical images to satisfy our built-in yearnings...'
In other words, science came along and demystitized the revolving sun. Science 'explained it'. It no longer ignited people's imagination. It had been explained. Let me quote now from Alan Watts' book 'Zen and the Beat Way':
"Scientists are very often men of real faith. An honest scientist is a person who wants to know what this world really is. They do not want to be bamboozled by theories and hypotheses; they want to face the facts.
"But the great interest of science, it seems to me, is not actually the facts or the concrete world but the representation of the concrete world in terms of certain codes--the codes of numbers, of algebraic symbols, or of formulae of various kinds--by which the scientist represents the world.
We substitue the thing itself for these codes. We no longer see the thing itself. We see its codes, its scientific representation.
Julian Cope:
William S. Burroughs takes it several steps further, not only denouncing scientific representation, but all our representational luggage.
William S. Burroughs: '"It is necessary to travel. It is not necessary to live." These words inspired early investigators when the vast fronier of unknown seas opened to their sails in the fifteenth century. Space is the new frontier. Is this frontier open to youth? I quote from the London Daily Express, December 30, 1968: "If you are a fit young man under twenty-five with lightning reflexes who fears nothing in heaven or on earth and has a keen appetite for adventure, don't bother to apply for the job of astronaut." They want "cool dads" trailing wires to the "better half" from an aqualung. Dr. Paine of the Space Center in Houston says: "This flight was a triumph for the squares of this world who aren't ashamed to say a prayer now and then." Is this the great adventure of space? Are these men going to take the step into regions literally unthinkable in verbal terms? To travel in space you must leave the old verbal garbage behind: God talk, country talk, mother talk, love talk, party talk. You must learn to exist with no religion, no country, no allies. [Eskimo's note: sounds a little like John Lennon's Imagine, eh?] You must learn to live alone in silence. Anyone who prays is not there. and Only our godself can pull us Out Out.
"The last frontier is being closed to youth. However there are many roads to space. To achieve complete freedom from past conditioning is to be in space. Techniques exist for achieving such freedom. These techniques are being concealed and withheld. We must search for and consider techniques for discovery."
Mike Runion: "I also think a cold lonely astronomer pondering the meaning of a black hole singularity is as awe-inspiring as the image of a fur-clad homo-sapien lost in the sheer wonder of a star rising above a slab of granite on some misty British moor."
I don't. And yes, I wrote this whole thing to support two damn words, how ironic.
Hi
other bands that light my fire
well thats it.
Russ
Andrew: I'm a pessimistic optimist. I think mankind has changed very little over time and that the average carpenter 500 years ago would do the same as one today...take pride when possible, but build crap when necessary.
Eskimo: An eloquent and cool discussion, most of which I agree with. Our "representational luggage" is both the foil and enabler of our social human existence. And it may be my physics/math background speaking, but it seems to be every physical experience is coded in some way...that's how information is transmitted, be it pulses of light, audible waveforms, words in a poem (or song), brush strokes of a painting, or equations in a cosmological theory. Granted, religious experience is perhaps something altogether different...that's why it's so hard to reach consensus and so hard to express true awe and glory and why it is all so very personal and subjective.
I disagree though that scientific explanations somehow hamper or negate the ignition of the imagination. I personally hold the exact opposite opinion. Oh well.
I think my problem with Julian's philosophies is that they seem too limiting to me. Why should our desire to perceive the world as a magical and mystical place (to reclaim our youthful innocence?) keep us from attempting to understand it on a physical level? I'm not sure that one is inherently more comforting than the other. The rail against modern religion is one thing, but the rail against science? I'm not sure if I get it. It's the greedhead misuse of scientific information that has us all so screwed, not the pursuit of physical knowledge.
And I don't understand Julian's abhorance of Darwinism. Sure, it's done its thing to lessen our opinion of our place in the universe, but isn't that good? I see that Darwinism has brought us back closer to the Mother (Nature) from which we came and kicked us in the head for thinking we were somehow better than everything else. We're here and now apart of everything. As Julian says:
I am one instant - only one minute / Not one speck am I / Not one heartbeat of the world am I / Nothing am I and that's a joy
(Just a few random musings...I'd written as much yesterday, said entirely different stuff, and deleted it for no reason)
Our "representational luggage" is both the foil and enabler of our social human existence.
How true, Mike. Maybe it's all about balance, then - yin/yang?
I disagree though that scientific explanations somehow hamper or negate the ignition of the imagination. I personally hold the exact opposite opinion. Oh well.
I think if we take the idea that scientific explanations do hamper or negate the ignition of the imagination, then Cope's abhorance of Darwinism and the rest of the science bashing do make sense.
The question is, do scientific explanations hamper the imagination? Or does explanation in general hamper the imagination? Depends on who we're talking about, but I think in general, people stop igniting their imagination and start placing the emphahsis on how things 'really are'. After all, that's a big step in growing up--when you stop 'playing around'. I think this is the kind of thing Cope and Burroughs are attacking, when this does happen. And I believe it does.
I have set up a Krautrock MB for all you Krautheads. So if you're interested in talking Kraut...
Krautrock MB [broken link]
And yes, I know the colors are screwed up, there is no banner, and there's already a faulty-HTML message (courtesy of myself) it's a Krautrock Message Board never-the-less! And those things will be fixed.
Hi Everyone!
On the JC philosophy front, has anybody read any TC Lethbridge? If you haven't then I suggest you try and get hold of some 'Legends of the sons of god' or 'the essential TC Lethbridge'are a good start. Basically the similarities between Lethbridge and Julian should be obvious if you read the books. They are both visionaries, but the problem with visionaries is that sometimes they get it wrong or things get too confused for others to understand. The other thing with visionaries is that they are constantly looking to the future, (whilst importantly not forgetting their past/heritage) something which can certainly be said about Julian. The fact that most (recent) cope albums are not instantly accessible (even for us, the fans) shows visionary qualities, it shows that in time we grow spiritually as we listen and grasp the philosophies/ideas and basic premise of where Julian is coming from. As a long time fan (from the UK) I can relate to this, I hated Jehovahkill first listen but by the 4th/5th listen my opinion had changed completely!
Anyway enough of the heavy stuff!
On the Krautrock front I would recommend the following to first time listeners/copefans:
that should be enough for starters!
Anyway this is my first post, thankyou for reading and goodnight!
I'm hoping to have my cope site up and running properly (at the moment there's not a lot there)check out my URL, there's also going to be a Krautrock guide there as well.
cheers
Hex
John Loughney recently gave me the URL for a record marketplace called GEMMS. It is a servive that lists all kinds of people selling records, cds etc, some are stores and some are private sellers. You can either buy through GEMMS for a service charge or contact the seller direct and save the 10%. Anyway, there is a great list of Cope stuff there. I managed to get a copy of the original Skellington release cd through it to complete my collection of Cope cds, so check it out, it is excellent! The URL is:
www.gemm.com
(Sorry, I don't know how to make it a live link)
Andrew
Just Got back from An Evening with Julian Cope in Manchester, much entertainment was had by all! Lots of talking, Anecdotes and poetry and two new songs: "Everthing Blows Me Away" and "Cairn Druidion" (not sure about the title on this one......) and also "Hanging out..". Did anybody get a tape of the event???? Email me If you Did please!!!
Anyway Bye for Now!
Is there only me and Andrew Out There??????!!!!!!
Hallo Hex! And, no, you're not alone. I'm here too. Just a bit occupied with the Krautrock Message Board, but am checking up on this board now and then to see if anybody wrote anything new. Last JC album-related thing I got was Anal. Would you call this ambient? Do you have it? If so, what do you think?
Hey everybody!
1) I added a link from my Cope page to Steve's Krautrock MB - nice going Steve!
2) I'm getting totally psyched up for reading The Modern Antiquarian!
3) I finally noticed the video clips on the Head Heritage site - neat! Too bad the frame rate is so low! Anyone wanna put some video online? We need to get Andrew a converter!!!
4) I know I should be putting this on the Krautrock board, but I must tell you guys... I got some more Krautrock: Can's FUTURE DAYS is great and so is Amon Duul II's YETI! Popol Vuh's IN THE GARDENS is more NewAge, very relaxing! Take elements from all three (FUTURE DAYS' catchy jazzy/catchy/paranoid groove, YETI's despairing/powerful/jammy improvs, and GARDENS' sparse/mysterious/"organic" landscape) and I think I understand what Cope means by "trance" music! Check them out - they are all more than worth the money!
Gotta run!
Trav
When I first heard Yeti (a few weeks ago) what struck me most was hearing the Cope in it--especially the vocal style. Yeti also reminds me of Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica, the guitars I guess. Future Days blows me away. D.S. over on the Krautrock MB is a rather large fan of it, too--in fact, he introduced it to me.
Everyone--if you want me to send you a nice intro to Krautrock tape, I'd be more than happy to. Email me if interested. I'll give you a nice Can mix, and Cluster's Sowiesoso.
Trav,
I would love to see us put up some video clips! If anyone out there has access to a converter for PAL to NTSC let me know. I know there are a few people out there that work in universities and they usually have these things lying around. Can anyone help us?
I would also like to put up a few of the recent Cope sessions as Real Audio files, like the Astoria gig. I recently received copied of two sessions Cope did for the BBC Radio 1 Mark Radcliff show last year and they are wonderful. I think in total I have four Mark Radcliff sessions on tape and all of them are hilarious and incredibly entertaining. On the recent ones Cope does a version of sleeping gas that I can't get enough of right now.
If you let me know your address Trav, I'll send you a tape of the four sessions so that you can put them up there for everyone. Could you do this? They really are excellent sessions and shouldn't be missed. Let me know what you think.
I've also updated the links page in Trampolene to include Eskimo's discussion group and Hex's site and a few others I found too. I've also put brief descriptions next to each one so you know what you're in for!
Hey all,
SB...tell me more about Anal. I've been tempted in the past to get it but haven't. Could you describe it in more detail? Is Julian's presence (production, right?) very evident?
Anal is like a far out eletronic-ambient record. You wouldn't know Julian had any hand in it. Experimental, sound effects type thing. So if you're into the far out, go for it.
Anal is strange. I have the cd and have tried to listen to it a few times. I say "tried" because I found it hard going indeed. SB is right in saying that it is very experimental. At times it sounds like some drunk kicking over the garbage cans in your back alley at 2 am. It is very different from the Julian Cope glambient albums, Rite and QE. It may be a collectors only thing. One day I swear I'm going to get whacked out on drugs and see if I can then understand what its all about. It certainly isn't driving music, but then I guess that depends on what you drive.
Mike, before you fork out your hard earned cash for this cd I'll send you a tape of it and then you can decide. IMHO there are far better cds to waste your money on! When I was in high school my friend and I used to have some BBC sound effects records that we listened to (thinking back I have no idea why, must have been a hormonal thing), anyway, the Anal cd reminds me of them.
Thanks Andrew and SB for the Anal info. I'd kinda figured as much but wasn't sure. And yes SB, I'll post to your Krautrock page soon. My forays into this genre are quite limited. Current totally engrossing and favorite albums: Bob Dylan "Time Out Of Mind" and Brute "Nine High A Pallet".
Mike and the rest, you don't have to know a lot about Krautrock to write something on the MB--afterall, I don't know a hell of a lot about it at all--but I think Krautrock questions are just as valuable as Krautrock insights. Anyway, questions lead to insights, so please feel free to come to the board and be naive. Julian would want it that way. What I really want to get more of though at the MB is how Krautrock people feel. What dark corners of the planet is everyone delving in when the play Cluster's Sowiesoso (my fave at the moment). And just to be redundant (too late, I know!) I'll make anyone a Krautrock tape who wants one.
"Death &Horror Sound Effects" was a particular favorite of mine Andrew, You were not alone!!! I loved the sound effect for the Guillotine (basically some sort of vegatable being cut up!) Ah...yes.. those hi tech boffins at the beeb!
As far as I'm aware the aNal Cd has sold out at Head Heritage anyway, so even if ya do want it ya can't have it! I saw him live on the Propheteering tour and to be honest it did nothing for me, but I have to be careful cos I do Electronic music myself and can be to anilitical (wot sort of spellin is dat) about other people's music!
the verdict: Anal ----Hmmmmmmmmm (literally!!!!)
Do pop over and see us on the Krautrock Message Board!
HEX
I too thought that the Anal cd was sold out at Head Heritage as I am pretty sure that when I checked it out a while ago they had a little red flashing "Sold Out!" next to it, but I was actually looking at the merchandise stuff there yesterday and the sold out thing is no longer there. Perhaps they found a box of them in the back of Julian's van.
Ok, then. Can someone tell me about Rite? Or Rite 2? What's up with those? Any good?
SB - As I've stated before here on Rail On!, I enjoy Rite and Rite 2 quite a bit. They are head and shoulders above QE and, judging from the posts to this list, Anal. Much more of a meditative groove thing going on, verses the trancy empty space of QE. Much more rythmic. As Julian himself has said, this is music to shag too. Parts of Rite could easily serve as the soundtrack to some obscure German porno or something. I happen to like Rite 2 even more. Each of it's four tracks are unique from the rest in terms of instrumentation and presentation. Track 3 is a mellow synth-techno freakout, while another track is all percussion-in-the-round. I for one would highly recommend these, especially if you took the time and trouble to get a copy of Anal.
With that said, I'm expecting great things from Ms. Elizabeth Vagina herself come the end of November.