Hello, everybody!

Please feel free to chat away!

Trav

Hey, guys -

I am curious - what are your favorite For Against albums?

Also, is anyone interested in helping me put together a For Against tribute tape? It's certainly a challenging project - the band's music is not easy!!!

Trav

What do y'all think of the new site format?

Trav

Sorry if you tried to post before and it didn't work - I forgot to set the permissions! (If you read this, it should work now)

Trav

Hi Trav,

It works now! And you were wondering why no one ever posts :)

I'll work on my reviews. Never really wrote one before. Whenever I make tapes for people, I put For Against on there cause I know they have never heard of them before and everyone always likes them..

Can For Against make bad music? I think not.

Julia

Got a package from Jeffrey Runnings yesterday! See the Correspondence page for details!

Trav

Wow, a For Against page! Who would've thunk it? I know the boys wouldn't have...though Mave and I have been talking about it lately. Looks like I got beat to the punch! Hope you don't mind if I share your site with some of the "hardcore" for against fans around here...

(posted by Travis)

i am a huge for against fan -- particularly of the earlier stuff. I had some questions that maybe you could help me with:

1. will echelons ever come out on cd? does someone own the rights to it who won't issue it on cd? i'd love to have a cd of it, since i won't open my vinyl copy (it's too beautiful) and my tape is missing...
2. there are early videos of for against, i saw on the web site... is it possible to get copies of these?
3. are there any concerts recorded, in audio or video format?

thanks much for your time!

I, too, would love to see Echelons on CD. So would the band. Right now, they are trying to find someone who can do it. Bruce Licher of Independent Project Records is their prime contact right now. He's swamped with other work, but will hopefully find the time (and money) to release it.

I don't know much about the videos. Randy, do you have any additional info?

I still do not know of any recorded live material. Hopefully the Spring tour will yield some recordings, that I'll put online (assuming the band's cool with it)!

Trav

I lived in New Mexico 11 years and worked at KNMS, which is now KRUX.

I live in Italy now.

I have been in several alternative bands from there in the 80's and was heavily involved in the new music scene.

I spoke to Jeffrey Runnings by phone several times and interviewed him for Blah Blah Blah magazine in 1987.

I can assure you this:

1. I absolutely worship For Against.
2. It is extremely difficult to say which album is best, although Self Life has not arrived in Italy yet.
3. My favourite song is "Get On With It" on Echelons.
4. Echelons should be on CD.
5. A greatest songs compilation by the band is not a bad idea either; they've been giving the world pleasurable music for over a decade, now.
6. I would love to speak to Jeffrey again...

With love,

David
Pesaro, Italy

I've got some "concert" info on the band. Mave tells me that they have scheduled a Feb. 14 (v-day) show at Knickerbockers (in Lincoln, Ne.) They are scheduled to play with two other local acts, Erik the Red (w/ Rich Higgins from Sideshow) and another band. I talked to Mave about recording the show and he seemed cool with it and was going to talk with Jeff. I will certainly pass it on as soon as I get my hands on it.

To my knowledge FA has never recorded much in terms of video. There may be one production video for one of the early songs, but unless somebody taped a show I don't think any exist!

Later,

Kurt

Hi Trav
Hi Julia

I came home from Tower Records today, with my new Shelflife CD, only to find an envelope from Bruce Licher in my mailbox. What perfect timing! It was stuffed with printed ephemera that I stared into while taking my first listen to the For Against album. The sounds were all pleasantly familiar, but it wasn't until track 4 that I became "Lost" in the music. Profile and Lilacs both tread new ground, the guitar glistening like a thin layer of ice over a bed of snow. As a fan of this band from the beginning, I can say "these guys have a knack for choosing and playing cover tunes". They are more like interpretations than covers, fitting in very well with the original material.

Curious? Buy it!

Oh, it's nice to be in touch with people who are "In The Know"! I am working on getting everything I don't have by For Against, just gotta work that overtime, you know ;)

Anyway, Travis, I hope you liked the tapes I sent you (I am sure enjoying yours) and Paul, I am working on yours, you Factory man!

Cheers,

Julia

Julia et al,

IPR mailorder has great prices on For Against and other nifty stuff right now. Bruce has extended the clearance sale through February 28th.

btw, listened to Shelflife two more times today. Trav, can you check my back? I think something is growing on me!

Here's my dream band:

• Budgie of Siouxsie And The Banshees on drums
• Brendan Perry of Dead Can Dance on auxiliary percussion and weird instruments and vocals
• Simon Raymonde of Cocteau Twins on bass
• Julian Wales of Kitchens Of Distinction on guitars
• Harry Dingman III of For Against on guitars (read ex-For Against member!)
• Mark Burgess of the Chameleons U.K. on vocals
• Hugh Jones as the producer
• Cover art by Bruce Leicher at IPR

What label would be good for them?

Just fantasizing,

Love,

David,

Pesaro, Italy

Julia - got the tapes, thanks!!! I listen to them at school. So far they're all really cool! :)

Very clever comment, Paul! :) "something growing on me" heh heh

Anyone know if FA's Spring 1998 tour is going to happen?

David - interesting list of celebs. What other albums did Hugh Jones direct? The name sounds really familiar. I keep wanting to say the Clash, but that's Mick Jones the singer. Hmmm... Something with echo and the bunnymen? Man! The name is so familiar!!!

Oh, and you forgot the all-important:

Jack Rabid with liner notes.

As for a label, hmmm... Someone who releases lots of LONG albums instead of a short album and a million overlapping singles.

Trav

Went to the FA show last night. The guys sounded really good. They didn't get to play a very long set because they started late and the bars close too early here! Mainly played stuff off of the new cd and three new songs (Fuel/Shelf Life/Outside). I talked to Jeff about the chances for a spring/summer tour, and he didn't sound too sure about it at this time. Rumor has it though that Jeff will be doing some "guest dj" spots on some NY radio stations in the next several weeks...that is about all I could get out of him though.

(Posted by Travis)

any news on for against touring?
-james

Jeff...guest DJ on NY radio?!

Details...PLEASE!!

Hi,

Just got on the FA page and think it's great! Got to see them last Sat. night at Knickabockers in Lincoln, too bad they started so late, I would have liked to listen to more songs.

The two or three new songs that they played were great though. Hoping for some new stuff this Spring.

I'm getting married in 3 weeks and Mave and my other brother, Doug, are going to play.

Take care,

Scott Hinrichs
aka Scorte Bjorte

To everyone:

I am so totally excited to find a For Against website.

I've been a huge fan for 10 years now. Seen them 3 times in NYC.

I can honestly say Jeffrey knows me. In fact he took me and a friendto dinner when he came and visited New York 5 years ago.

Although all the material is awesome, I guess I am partial to "Mason's". It doesn't get any better than "hindsight" for me.

Best to everyone at this sight!!!!!!!

Love, Wayne Guskind

Please e-mail me.

just to let FA know they have at least one huge fan here in Ontario. Found Echelons (sealed, brand new) in a sale bin for 50 cents 3 years ago. Completely blew me away. Nebraska? Nebraska? What the hell's going on here? Finally found December a few months ago (also used, sorry guys I realize I'm not putting anything in your wallets this way). Last week bought Shelflife. Now I'll have to order Aperture and Mason. FA are the first consistently great band I have heard since JD. Shelflife is the only thing on my cd-player these days. Beautiful beautiful music, powerful lyrics. Didn't think they could better echelons til i heard December. Didn't think they could better December until I heard Shelflife. My God the next one will probably kill me. Keep it going guys, you need to be heard.

You'll definitely like Aperture and Mason's California Lunchroom... Snatch 'em up quickly!

It'd be interesting to put together a favorite FA album/song survey. Anyone else interested in me doing one?

Scott - you must be married by now - congrats!!! :)

Take care everybody,

Trav

Hey Trav!

Sure I'm interested in seeing you do an online survey, but as long as you're gonna go through the trouble, why not make it an IPR survey? Or at least For Against and Savage Republic?

See ya,

Paul

How great to find this web page!

First heard For Against in 1991 late one night in Palo Alto, Calif.--"Sabres" (December) was playing on KZSU (Stanford U's station). Rushed to buy the album the next day, felt my life had changed (well, that may be a slight exaggeration--but not much. It's such an incredible album! Intimate, ominous, real.) So sorry December's out of print, I'd love to get it on CD or vinyl (my copy is on cassette--I've played it so much I'm afraid it's going to break). Has FA ever played in California? This past January I heard "Shadow" on KCRW-FM, (Los Angeles' best alternative music station and NPR affiliate). Ordered it online right away. Again, incredible! It's all I've been listening to for 4 months. If I don't play it at least twice a day I get shaky. Well now I suppose I'm sounding a bit silly. But honestly, I'm crazy about their music. I haven't actually met any other FA fans. Until finding this page, I've felt almost as though FA were my band. Sound weird or do you know what I mean? It's great to finally shout my enthusiasm to folks who agree.

Hey all.

I recently found this page after I picked up a copy of Shelflife. I read about the band in Big Takeover. Does anybody know where I could find some For Against lyrics and guitar tabs?

Trey, I have an extra December on CD - if you're interested in it, let me know.

Yeah, I know what you're saying about "my band" - it's like they were a special dessert custom-made just for you! All your favorite toppings...

Okay, as for lyrics and tab, I don't know of any off-hand. I need to get in touch with Jeffrey soon, so that'll be one of the things I ask about.

And, as for a survey and IPR stuff... Now that the summer is finally here, I plan to build up my IPR pages to the point where they'll actually start being useful! I'll try to add an on-line catalog and the important links and all that, and maybe, if the IPR folks say it's okay, put some samples of various IPR bands on-line. I'll have to get in touch with Bruce and Brandon before I run with that ball, however...

Trav

Hey Trav,

Picked up Mason's recently, completing my collection.

I have been working diligently (okay, half-assed) to get my webpages working. Well, they work. However I did some renaming and it may not be possible to access all areas if I goofed somewhere. Here's the url to the IPR discography (plain and dull, but it's there) which I hope to spruce up soon-- "http://members.tripod.com/~Trudge/iprlogo.html"

fingers crossed,

Paul

To everyone:

Happy to have For Against forum.

I truly thank my lucky stars that Jeff/Mave/Paul are still together. That is because (as modest as they are) they know (inside their heart) their music is something very special.

Let's face it For Against are an American treasure.

What other band creates such spell-binding pop rhythms, with just the right amount of atmospheres along with Jeffrey's soaring vocals replete with unforgettable lyrics.

Three cheers for For Against!!!!!!!

Fan forever,

Wayne Guskind

The new Big Takeover is out! You should go buy it immediately if you haven't yet! Check out The Big Takeover Home Page for details.

I've been listening to FA a lot these days. December is still my favorite; Aperture is a close second. I'm anxious to see what the band's up to nowadays.

(Wearing a For Against T-shirt, in fact...)

Trav

(posted by Travis)

hello,

has there been any updates, (rumors, truths, or any twitch), about for against possibly touring this year? any info would be greatly appreciated,

~james

(posted by Travis)

The "December" cds are long gone. Neither Bruce nor Jeffrey has any, so there won't be any more copies to sell unless they are ever reissued.

Lori Allson has (yet another) new band--I believe it's her third since the Millions. I'm not certain of the name, but very excitingly HARRY DINGMAN is in the band! It's a 4 piece, with a young rhythm section. From what I've heard Harry is STILL also playing with Starla The Nudie Dancer (who, by the way, have not released any music to date. They've done a few demo tapes, but that's it so far).

Randy LeMasters

No word on a "tour" or any summer shows. The band has been taking it kind of easy this summer and trying to write some new songs. Steve "mave" finally has an e-mail address if you want to write him directly...

stevenmaven@juno.com

Oh yeah...it's really hot and sticky in Nebraska!!

In my 5 cd changer right now:

December, Aperture, Mason's, Shelf Life, and...dman, the fifth slot is empty. I would love to fill that space appropriately :o)

I so rarely listen to vinyl, Echelons sits quietly on the rack throughout most of the year.

An observation:

Playing all 4 cds consecutively/simultaneously, I would say that the strongest material is on Shelf Life. Just an observation. I love the first 2 albums, but there's something about this one that just draws me in.

i have a spare cd copy of december that i will trade for a cd copy of shelf life. email if interested.

-bill hunter
bill@pobox.com

low traffic here, eh? anyhow, the copy of december has been traded for shelf life, and now i only lack "in the marshes". i plan to make myself a "convenience" copy of echelons on cd-r. of course mastering from vinyl won't sound so pristine, but at least i can have it in the car...

i do have a different copy of millions' "raquel". it says: 'This promo is the European version of The Millions' - Raquel. The Domestic version will include remixes of the featured Euorpean singles "Manic & Slipping", "Play Sacrifice", and "Led By Beauty".'

it has 12 tracks instead of 8, and some other minor differences. i emailed all the details to trav, maybe he'll add it to the millions page.

do any of you listen to Idaho? i won't say they sound like FA, but there is a similar 'mood'. '3 sheets to the wind' and 'the forbidden e.p.' are their best.

sure would like to see for against come to denver...

Show announcement!! For Against will be playing October, 23rd at "The Eighteenth Amendment" in Omaha, NE. They are playing with Mercy Rule (another nebraska product). I'll post more details if I hear them!!

KJ

i have a copy of december on vinyl i'd be willing to trade.

email me if you're interested.

Anyone have a line on current shows and/or tour dates in the near future. Also looking to trade for some live FA shows audio/video. I have a couple but am looking for more. I have other stuff as well.

Thanks

FT

How'd the gig go?

I'll try to add that new Millions info soon. Thanks, Bill.

Right now I am pouring a lot of time into the Digital Sex site, and am working on making an IPR Encyclopedia.

If anyone has any FA tour info, or info about existing live tapes, I'll add that to the FA site, along with the new Millions info.

Also, there's a brief post from Harry Dingman on the Digital Sex list (9 November) that you might want to check out.

Trav

Hello-

Anyone have any idea what is going on with the band right now? Its been well over a year since "Shelf-life" came out? I can't wait to hear what the band puts out next--I am sure that it will be as brilliant as everything else that they have done--They truly are one of the best bands working today.

See you soon-

Joshua

i found a used cd copy of december, email me if interested, i will go to the store and pick it up.

jesse
mack0199@tc.umn.edu

Howdie!

Good news: The new Big Takeover is out! :)

Bad news: I've heard that Jeff is having a rough time these days. Problems with his voice plus traumas in his personal life. Hopefully things will shape up for him.

Hope everyone has a nice Holiday season. No more obnoxious Christmas music!!! And no classes for a couple weeks... :)

Trav

[posted by Travis]

Hi TXE,

Just wanted to say your For Against site is great and to also mention this: did you know the World Domination site also moved here?:

http://imusic.interserv.com/worlddom/

I know it's not much of a change from their old address but when I use WebTV to get to it on your site I can't get to it. When I use the new address on WebTV I get to it pretty easily. Anyway, just thought I should mention it. I'm glad to see World Dom's still going strong. And hey when's the new For Against disc coming out? Boy would I love to hear them play a Teardrop Explodes cover. Take care.

Chris

[posted by Travis]

Hello, I would really like to see Echelons and December released on CD. My vinyl copy of echelons is too warped to play anymore and the cassette (the only pre-recorded cassette i have ever purchased) of December has failed as well. Im going to ordr the new releases from CD now in a moment. But would like to see ecelons on CD so i dont lose the recording forever.

Thanks,

Brian Fitzpatrick

infact if vinyl is still available of either recording i would like to get a copy of each, please let me know if it/they are available.

I might be interested in doing a small CDR release of Echelons and In the Marshes. I'd have to get the band's permission, of course, and it would be primarily for people on this list. Not a full-blown studio quality release but at least we'd finally have Echelons on CD. :)

I'm interested in making a live CD. I'd need some live material for that, first; right now I have none.

Trav

[posted by Travis]

I just came across your web page and was very excited to see something about the Millions. I am wandering if you have any more info about them or the members of the band. I always saw them when they came to St. Louis. My wife, Amy and I are big fans. I miss hearing them preform live. So if you can tell me anything I would be greatful.

Thanks,

Pat

[posted by Travis]

Hi

Congratulations on the excellent For Against site..I didn't expect that there was any....until I checked the UBL.

Any ideas as to how can I find the lyrics to the ShelfLife album?

Victor Matsas
Athens, Greece

Hey guys!

About lyrics and tour dates - I don't have them now, but will let you know as soon as I find something out.

Request for Feedback:

I've been considering changing the format of this site to that of my Digital Sex web site, which is newer and, after a lot of tweaking and feedback from band members and fans, has a more straightforward layout. I also need to add in some cover scans to the discography page, now that I have a scanner.

However, before I start updating these pages, I'd like to get some feedback regarding this site and the Digital Sex site:

• Are the layouts good for browsing?
• Are the layouts good for searching for specific information?
• Does seeing the same background on all the pages give you a comfortable sense of continuity? Or does it make you bored?
• What other features/information would you like to see?
• More reviews? Articles? How about some surveys? [I love giving surveys!!!]

Any feedback is welcome, whether it's questions, criticisms, compliments, or suggestions. Feedback also inspires me to keep working on the site. One of the reasons the Digital Sex site has evolved so quickly is that the band members and fans there have been really good at giving prompt and frequent feedback.

Thanks, and hope to hear from you!

Travis

for sale:

aperture cd (sealed) - $11 (shipping included within the US)

please email me if interested

Hello everyone,

Happy to see you are all still here! My last posting was about a year ago...

For Against is still my favourite band along with Kitchens Of Distinction, Lush, Slowdive, etc...But, hell...I cannot fin Shelflife in Italy. I'm gonna tell my sis who lives in AZ to buy it for me when she comes over to Europe for vacation. Sorry to hear about Jeffrey's problems...Can't believe no one wants to pick the rights to put Echelons on CD! Anyway, have a good one.

Seeya,

Dave

P.S.: After almost five years in Italy, I have started my own band "Sieve"...Sounds alot like House Of Love, Godfathers, My Bloody Valentine, Strangelove...Cool!

The website looks great! This is the first time i've really checked it out. We are currently finishing songs for a new album, hopefully to be recorded this spring. Thanks for all the support & kind words. My email adress is: stevenmaven@juno.com.

Howdie! Nice to hear from you, Steven! And it's excellent news you bring, a new album! :)

I made myself a CD of Echelons, In the Marshes, and a FA song off of Power in the House. I need to redo a couple tracks [my tape heads needed to be readjusted] and then finish making the sleeve and label, and then I'll be done! I still need to check with the band to find out whether I can make copies for people on here...

Trav

[Posted by Travis]

I am interested in learning more about the Millions. I'd like to find a copy of the 2nd release. Are they still around? Touring? Please respond with any info on this group to VillaBng@aol.com. Last year, I wrote to Terry Brown (producer of "M" is for...) but got no reply. Good band, good sound.

Thanks,

Vik Bangia

[posted by Travis]

Subject: old For Against demo

Was curious if you'd ever heard the REALLY old For Against demo (circa 1984/1985) with songs like "Amen Yves", "Secrets", "Black Soap", "If you go south", etc. and my god it's been so long all the other song titles are escaping me. Anyhow, I have a very average sounding quality copy (taped during a thunderstorm off of KZUM in Lincoln when it was mono and 10 watts of power). Still one of the best demos I've heard though.

I used to go see this band play all the time at the long defunct Brickyard in good old Lincoln, NE during my high school years (the mid-80's). Figured you were probably there on more than a few occasions.

As far as the discography goes, they were on a compilation along with Digital Sex, but the label and name are escaping me also at the moment. I have the lp at home if you are curious... the For Against song is a very keyboardish rendition of Amen Yves. I'm positive it's been out of print for a long time.

Regards,

Todd

And remember to "keep passing the open windows"...

Hi guys!

Vikas - The Millions broke up shortly after releasing Raquel in 1994; see the Intro page for more information. There are a couple online stores which have Raquel; see the Merchandise page for availability.

Todd - Actually, I've never been to a For Against gig! I live waaaayyyy over here in Virginia and don't get out to the midwest very often. In fact, I haven't been into concerts much at all; the last real gig I attended was the Mark Burgess tour in 1994. By the way, FA contributed "Fate" to Power in the House; is that the compilation you were thinking about?

Trav

Actually the compilation was called "Music from the Dead Zone". Still haven't gotten around to committing the label to memory yet though! And as for seeing a Mark Burgess show... anything Chameleons oriented would be very cool to see. Does he do Chameleons songs or strictly solo stuff?

Also, I have a copy of a Millions demo tape that has some alternate versions of some songs from "M is for Millions" plus some tracks not available anywhere else. If you need more info let me know as I haven't gone snooping around far enough to see if you were already aware of the tape or not.

Hello all,

Here's some info and clarifications regarding recent posts.

The compilation lp that has been mentioned this week is actually called MUSIC FROM THE DEAD ZONE TWO: USA. The record label is Dead Man's Curve. The lp is from the UK and also features Digital Sex, Hunting Lodge, and The Haters along with 7 other artists. I found my copy at a used record store that no longer exists in Omaha!

Here's the For Against unreleased first lp (from 1985) track listing:

1. If You Go South Again
2. I'm Lonely
3. Men Of Pride
4. History Place
5. Black Soap
6. Amen Yves
7. Shallow
8. Hardest Game
9. Secrets
10. Falling Grenades
11. What She Says Goes
12. don't have a title for this cut--possibly "Winter's Cruel." anyone know what it is?
13. Theory Of Revolving Doors

It's a damn shame this lp wasn't released. In my opinion it's a fantastic record, but it wouldn't have been quite as strong a debut release as ECHELONS was.

A few highlights:

• "If You Go South Again" is probably the poppiest song ever recorded by For Against. The upbeat song style is in direct contrast with the lyrics. An example: "If you go south again I won't be your friend..." By the way...the song is about some fellow named Matthew Sweet...
• "I'm Lonely" and "Hardest Game" are more great emotional heart tuggers that everyone can relate to. Excellent examples of Jeffrey's fine lyrics and superb vocals!
• "Amen Yves." It's a different recording than the one released on IN THE MARSHES. Lovely illustrations of Harry and Greg's superb skills!
• "Secrets." My fave! The song chugs along mightily until a nice ethereal "middle eight" slows things down. The song then picks up steam again to it's mighty climax! Maybe the greatest unreleased song from this era of the band! Would have been a fantastic addition to the ECHELONS lp.
• "Falling Grenades." Some wild guitar from Harry mixed with synth and a dance beat.

GREAT, GREAT STUFF!!!!!!

Lastly, to clarify the Millions RAQUEL release.

The 12 cut release (the version with the promo sticker released by Dream Circle records out of Germany) is actually the first version of the cd. It was released late Spring/early Summer 1994. Stores in Nebraska, as well as my store in Pittsburgh, were provided copies of this version from the band themselves for sale through our businesses.

Later, late Fall/early Winter 1994 the Millions were signed to a US deal to release an 8 cut version of RAQUEL through Thermometer Sound Service. Before Thermometer pressed the cd they wanted a few remixes of RAQUEL songs ("Play Sacrifice" and "Led By Beauty"--a mistake, because the original version of "Beauty" is THE superior version of the song) hoping to get some radio play. While waiting for the remixes Thermometer sent copies of the original 12 cut Dream Circle cd as promo copies out to radio, press, and retail hoping to get a "buzz" going for the band. Thus, the stickered 12 cut Promo version.

Eventually, the second version of RAQUEL hit stores while a 1 cut promo cd of the remixed version of "Play Sacrifice" was sent out to radio. Not long after, Feedback--the company who owned Thermometer, went bankrupt and the Millions split.

If there's further interest I'd be happy to provide the track listing and some comments on the unreleased Millions lp.

Randy LeMasters

Randy -

Thanks for the info!

It'd be great to hear that early For Against stuff. Do you think there's any chance that the band will put together a CD of unreleased cuts? Have you considered releasing it?

I'd be willing to do a home made release of it, something for fans on here. I could include a CD of Echelons and In the Marshes as a bonus. :) That'd be kinda cool, actually. As long as I wouldn't be stepping on anybody's toes...

Trav

Could someone keep me posted when/if For Against decide to play out in Lincoln, NE anytime soon. I'm willing to take an airbus from Cleveland for it.

Hey everyone,

I know there hasn't been much activity on this site recently but just wanted to let you know that i have a new email address.

Yes, we are still working on new material - it's going slow as usual. Hopefully we'll be able to get into the studio this summer. I think our new material is some of the strongest we've written.

I'll be sure to post the next time we play live.

Thanks for the support!

Nice to hear from you, Mave!

I'm really pscyhed that you guys are still working on new material. Man, gimme more, gimme more! :) :) :)

Trav

Hello all,

I'm a dutch For Against fan who mostly loves 80ties and 90ties "guitarwave" as I like to call it. The base of it all lies with "The Chameleons". One day a friend of me showed me two 10" albums with absolutely lovely packages, the IPR 10" series. One of them was For Against the other Abecedarians.

As of now I do own most For Against stuff, at least I thought. When reading some mail of this list it seems there's an unreleased album? Is this available on tape / cdr. I know I am very interested and I know that a couple of German friends of mine will be too.

Can you please inform me on this on? Any other news concerning the recordings of the new album?

I would like to close this off with my complements to Travis who does a great job on this homepage.

Herbert

[Posted by Travis]

Good day-

Your For Against website is the only one with reference to The Millions (the only one I've been able to find anyway)

I am a big fan an would like to get a copy of their CD, M is for Millions (I have a copy of Raquel). If you could email me with info of how to get a copy (even a used copy of someone you know, who may want to part with it). I'd appreciate it.

Thanks a lot

Hey guys, a few things. First of all, I updated the Merchandise page. There's a slightly different format, and all the prices are current as of today. M is for Millions is available at CD-Europe.

Secondly, I plan on revamping the appearance of this page sometime soon, to make it consistent with my other sites. I'll also archive the current page. Before I do those things, however, I need to decide whether to add my new search tool directly to this page, or to the archives.

A demo of this search tool is currently available on my test page. [not anymore - Trav] Simply replace "cope/rail-on" with "for-against" and it should search the For Against web site for whatever keywords you type in.

Please let me know what you think about it.

By the way, I don't know much about the unreleased album; Randy's post is the only info I have on it. You know, I actually got semi-accused of having distributed copies of unreleased For Against stuff! That's weird, because I haven't even seen anything like that, and I tend to be anti-piracy. I'm thinking someone else out there might be making CDRs of non-studio For Against material. Whether it's legal or easy to get hold of 'em, I don't know. I'm staying out of it!

Mave, do you know anything about any of this?

Trav

[posted by Travis]

As one who lives within driving distance of Lincoln, I've always wondered if there was any way I could find out about [For Against's] performances. A 3-to-4-hour road trip would be nothing to have the rare opportunity to see the band in action. I hope the web page will give details the next time it happens, or that someone (Mr. Hinrichs?) will post the date(s) here.

Randy

Mave showed up on the Big Takeover mailing list, prompting an interesting thread. Here are some excerpts:

Mave wrote:

to which Jack Rabid responded:

PMcFlemp@aol.com then wrote:

I am wondering if it is possible to acquire a recording of the original For Against One tape relased in the early 1980's?

Also, who was the original singer for For Against One? I used to know the girl he dated, many years ago.

Please feel free to mail me with any info.

Thanks.

Cool! I was driving home just now and heard "Get On With It" on my favorite radio show! This was the first time I've ever heard For Against on the radio. I talked to the DJ and he said he works at a club in town and would love to have For Against play there! Now THAT is a gig I would go see!

Trav

By the way, I've made a lot of updates to the appearance of the Digital Sex web site. After I get settled into my new place (once I find it), I'll be able to put together a big update of the For Against web site, too. I've got lots of things to add... Good stuff!

Anyway, if you want, please take a look at the Digital Sex site and let me know what you think about the appearance, the organization, and the ease of use (including download speed). And if you don't know that band yet, you need to check 'em out!

Trav

Hey Trav,

Very very cool idea. Its been awhile since I checked out your site and it has really gotten good! I am a huge For Against fan who first saw them open up fo the Dead Milkmen when they were on the Echelons tour. Needless to say, the Dead Milkmen were anti-climactic after seeing For Against. I mean, the performance alone was incredible. They used an 8 or 16mm spliced together film reel made of old science films that they projected on top of the stage really big! And they had put up small silk screened posters with the band name all over the venue. I ran out the next day and bought all the music by them I could find. I even went so far as to write the band and did get a reply form Harry. I was stoked! Needless to say I have everything but Masons California Lunchroom, the early Echelons single with the Hammer and Sicle screened on the label and various printed items (T-shirts, posters etc.) I have'nt really been in contact with IPR in a while and wonder if it is still possible to get some of the stuff I am missing. Theres nothing I like more than listening to my old copy of Echelons on vinyl with all its pops and cracks. I love the new stuff just as much. Keep up the fine work guys. Damn, If ever For Against needed a place to stay or a hot meal when in Chicago I'd be glad to put up my place! Anything new in the works for For Against?

Thanks for the Forum!

Brian Nilsson
Chicago Illinois

Is it still possible to get the two For Against videos?

Anyone willing to dub them for me? I'll supply the tape.

Hey guys!

I finally have an update, regarding the new album. Mave recently posted this to the excellent Big Takeover mailing list:

Travis

Hey guys!

The sound excerpt links are broken; they still point to thunder's ftp site, which was destroyed a couple of months ago (or longer... I don't know!) Anyway, I still have the files, here on cyclone. I'll update the links when I do the next update. [fixed -- trav]

Updates soon!

Trav

can anyone provide an update as to how For Against's work on a forthcoming album is going?

December for sale

I've recently replaced my vinyl copy of For Against's December with a cd version. I've put the vinyl version up for sale on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=516658564

The auction ends in 7 days... December 9th, 2000

Testing the new server...

Excellent! Looks like everything's working on the new server. :)

Let's cross our fingers that a new FA album is in the works...

Trav

I realize this isn't completely kosher, but I'm trying to get all of For Against's stuff on CD and, as far as I knew, Echelons isn't on CD. I lost my vinyl Echelons in a fire back in 1997 - not that it was that good to being with - else I'd convert it and put it on CD myself via my burner.

Would anyone be opposed to putting a copy of Echelons vinyl or CD onto another CD and sending it my way?

I have some Church to trade, some live boots of Robyn Hitchcock, Apples in Stereo, Labradford, Elf Power, and Chameleons.

what happened to f/a its dec 2001.

If anyone is looking for an original numbered (#345/of1,000) copy of ECHELONS I'm auctioning one of now on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=859716276&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1019605059&indexURL=0&rd=1

The new For Against CD, called COALESED, is coming very soon on the Words On Music label. Check out the link below for all the information:

http://www.words-on-music.com/WM11.html

By the way...this album is FANTASTIC! I've had the pleasure of listening to it since the Spring of 2001, and I've literally worn out the cassette!!! Some of the best music ever recorded by Jeffrey!

i'm looking for "the effect" from the "december" album on mp3 or other format.If anyone can help please contact.i'm also looking for for against's guitar tabs.

Awesome!!! Thanks for the info, Randy!!!

Wow!

Trav

The new For Against cd COALESCED is shipping now from Words On Music!!!

If you haven't pre-ordered your copy yet go to their web site and order it RIGHT NOW!!! You will not be disappointed!!!

http://www.words-on-music.com/WM11.html

Awesome! Thanks for posting that, Randy!

I ordered it as soon as I saw your posting! Only $10! wow!

T

Help....I want to buy For Against Records! But....where???

ALL I want is a fricken for against t shirt, can someone help me? oh yeah and echelons and in the marshes seriously need to get put on cd, as much as i love vynal, it just doesnt last . I neeed a fricken t-shirt ,hey, you gimmie your tshirt.

Here's an Italian For Against fan. Is there anyone out there able to help me find a cd copy of December? I've got all of the FA releases but this one and just can't track down a copy of it. Please, get back to me (either on or off the list - either way is fine with me) if you can help! Thanks!

I am 25 looking for a female friend.I like listening to music going out for a dance at times.

patrickchisi@yahoo.com Is my address.

Could anyone help me find any Hunting Lodge cds??????(carnivora)

Hi there,

I'm a big For Against fan from Germany. I'm looking for the album Masons California lunchroom. Any idea where to get it?

I already ordered Coalesced and Shelflife the past days. I already have Echolons as Vinyl, In the marshes 10", December CD and Aperture CD.

Best regards

Dirk

I was wondering if anyone had a current contant address for For Against.

This server keeps running out of space, so I list some more posts. Eeek!

from www.words-on-music.com

FOR AGAINST¹S DECEMBER TO BE RE-RELEASED!

Words On Music announces it will re-release December, For Against's out-of-print second album from 1988. December is a fan favorite and the album is now considered by critics to be a forerunner of the dream pop scene popularized in England just a year or two later. The album also injects elements of the brooding, Factory Records sound found on their debut, Echelons, which was re-released by Words On Music in August 2004. The December reissue will be remastered with a new six-panel digipack design from Bruce Licher. Look for an early Spring 2005 release date. Thanks to Independent Project Records for making this reissue possible!

Sorry, instead of "list" I meant "lost".

I'm in the process of migrating my pages to a new server which won't have these problems. However, it'll probably be a few months.

Until then, I've written a backup script which I'll run weekly. It'll copy the contents of the list to my local pc, which will let me keep recent "snapshots", so we don't lost a lot of posts.

Sorry about the server problems...

Trav

Hey, some quickies:

1. Here's a page with a nice update on what For Against has been up to: http://www.words-on-music.com/foragainst.html
2. Echelons was re-released on CD! You can get it via Words on Music (using PayPal) for $11. I ordered mine as soon as I saw the link!
3. Paul Engelhard sent me a nice email and said the band is working on some new songs! :) :) :)
4. My overhaul of the For Against site is scheduled for early 2005. I've been updating my sites slowly but steadily. In 2004 I overhauled 3 of them (comsat angels, cope, tripecac). I've decided to go alphabetically, so next up is Digital Sex, and then For Against.

I hope everyone is having a good autumn!

Trav

i got copy number 448 of 1000 of the echelons album which got released in march 1987, and i wondered if anybody knew how many still got printed afterwards?

i am currently evaluating my rarities and regarding this one i am a bit clueless.

many thanks in advance & greetings from kraut-(not green-)land

olaf

I DON REACH HERE. MAKE UNA WAKA FAR FOR ANOTHER WORK.